25 February 2005.

Charles Goyette(CG):…I watched network television for 2 hours last night – I mean, I never do that. But I watched ABC last night for Peter Jennings’ special: “UFOs – Seeing is Believing”. It was a two-hour special and, I’ll tell you, it’s a little bit surprising, first of all, that somebody like Peter Jennings would lend his name to a topic like this, because you start to get a little hooted and hollered down when you do and you become the butt of jokes on Leno and Letterman if you treat this stuff seriously, but Peter Jennings actually did. It was his production company put the show on the air. And, I think it was pretty good. Let me tell you an inside trick of these broadcast journalists. I’ll you an inside trick right now — a lot of these guys use this. Obviously, he’s interested enough in the subject of UFOs to lend his name and his production company to a two-hour special, despite the possibility of being somewhat ridiculed within the industry for having done so. So, what they do is they set themselves up as being impartial journalistic observers. They will be arbiters of what is true and what is false. And the Jennings show last night did that masterfully. I’ll give you a couple of examples. For example, he treated the Phoenix Lights with a certain amount of respect, and it’s hard not to because people saw something. I have my own ideas about what it may be after having done literally dozens of radio programs about it and talked to literally hundreds of people about it. I have my own ideas about what it may be, but he treated the story of the Phoenix Lights with some respect. In fact, within the module about the Phoenix Lights, he broke away to some guy in Tucson, a former Air Force pilot and would be astronomer, who debunked it; who debunked it in the most laughable, absurd terms. His debunking had nothing to with the experiences of people that actually saw the event, and I wondered about him as an astronomer, too. He opened up his little observatory and it was all blinding white lights. Hey, there goes your night vision, moron! Anyway, and then, so he treated the Phoenix lights with a certain amount of respect, as though it had some credibility, and then he totally debunked the Roswell incident — in almost laughable terms, frankly. And then, he got to the business of — many of the debunkers of these UFO things talk about well the space-time logistics, lightyears apart, speed of light, Einstein, and so on, but he treated that topic with a certain amount of respect and he had Dr. Michio Kaku, who’s one of the nation’s leading or at least most prominent theoretical physicists, talk about you know, you’d better rethink these space-time barriers, you know we have a certain amount of knowledge for our kind of evolution but there are other possibilities that are linking out there. And he didn’t get into superstrings and stuff, but he treated that part of the story with a little respect, and then he dissed abductions, so it was hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold all night long — you know, this is credible, this is absurd, this is credible, this is absurd, and that’s how they set themselves up to be impartial arbiters of the truth. And it’s a very good journalistic trick. Anyway, he did that last night, and I thought, “you know what we ought to do… if Peter Jennings is going to treat this whole area of inquiry with some respect, we ought to go to the ‘go to guy’ about it.” There’s one guy who has been, in my view, in the forefront of all of this business about what the government may know about our intelligent, about witnesses, about reverse-engineering of energy and propulsion systems. There’s one guy who is credible, who is articulate, and has done a lot of good work over the years. So, here he is on the Charles Goyette show. Dr. Steven Greer is with us. He is the founder and director of the Disclosure Project. He is actually an emergency medicine physician in Charlottesville. Dr. Greer, thank you for being on our program.

Steven Greer (SG): You’re welcome, glad to be here.

CG: You know the last time we talked I think was 2001. You were just getting your project, Disclosure Project, I guess up and running, and you have the testimony, as I recall, of a handful of military and high government intelligence officials that joined you at the National Press Club. Can you remind us about the Disclosure Project?

SG: Yes, at DisclosureProject.org people can actually see the footage and the transcripts of testimony from over 110 military and intelligence and corporate officials who dealt with this subject clandestinely over the last few decades. That’s DisclosureProject.org. And what I think is interesting about this ABC News spoof, which actually I was involved with it from its early concept last year until not too long ago, when I realized what it was going to be. And, essentially what they did was to set it up and knock it down and set it up and knock it down. What’s interesting about your commentary, as I listened to it, is reflecting on what wasn’t in the show. We gave them — I mean if we’re talking about some 10 or 12 million dollars we put into investigating and trying to get all these top-secret people to come forward. We have 110 hours of digital videotape from people ranging from the top guy at the FAA who’s seen secret radar tapes, to brigadier generals, to astronauts who’ve seen some of these things, and they didn’t have a single credible one of these people on the show. They had a few people scattered in just in a perfunctory way. And it was interesting because one of the junior producers on the show — Mark Obenhaus was the guy who was in charge of really trashing the whole subject — but, this other guy, Jordan Kronick, when he and I met early on, he said you know, we want to make history with this, we want to put everything in there that could really blow the lid off this if there’s anything there. I said, look, buddy, if that’s what you want to do, I’ll give it to you on a silver platter we have it. We have thousands of pages of government documents, not old stuff from the forties, as recently as the nineties. We’ve got all of these top-secret witnesses, highly credible with their DD-214’s and corroborating radar tapes, and the whole nine yards. He said, “Well that’s what we want.” They put none of it — zero — into this show. So, my view of it is that they weren’t even trying to pretend to be impartial, it was subtle journalism saying, “Oh, we are the arbiters of truth,” when Big Media is usually the arbiter of lies, as you know. And, essentially, what they did was something that put a few things in that made it look like they were impartial, but as an insider, what I saw them doing was deliberately sanitizing the show of everything that would have been hard-hitting and credible.

CG: Yeah, I’m not surprised. Listen, did you find in the Disclosure Project and the kind of witnesses and senior government officials that apparently are from time to time willing to come forward… well, actually, they treated that on the show last night. I mean, they talk about Major Jesse Marcel wanting to get the truth out years later after he’s retired and willing to go public. Do you find that years later, down the road, people think “you know, there’s no reason I should be shut up about this”?

SG: Actually, the people who have a lot of sensitive information are still rather frightened to come forward, and the whole thing that was left out of this show is — they kept saying, “Well, the government isn’t in the business of looking into this right now.” Well, that’s an absolute false statement. I mean, I have personally briefed the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and a sitting CIA director on this project, and they knew that there were projects still going on, but they were being lied to about them. So, this is a serious problem of dysfunction of government. I mean, there is an enormously well-funded project dealing with this area that is going on to this day, and we were wanting to have them go into that from a government accountability point of view, from the point of view that there are tens of billions of dollars going into projects that the congress, and even this White House (at least in the form of the President), has very little knowledge of, and these are things that are really anathema to democracy and, in my opinion, to the American constitution. So, one of the problems has been getting the media to actually do anything resembling investigative reporting, and this certainly was not an investigative report — I’ve seen better things on the History and the Discovery Channel, it was pitiful really.

CG: Look, I know that you have briefed guys like Woolsey. If you’ve briefed the head of the DIA, you’ve briefed the acting or the sitting head of the CIA and they know about it but it’s not under their purview, who the hell is doing it?

SG: Well, this is 64 trillion dollar question. The best we’ve been able to put together is that there’s sort of a permanent covert bureaucracy that develops around these sort of sensitive issues, whether it’s in the National Security Agency or the CIA or the Pentagon. But, most of the real action today is outsourced through these compartments, they’re called, super-secret compartmentalized information. They then get passed on to corporate programs such as what Lockheed has, it’s Skunkworks, Northrop, and other contractors, so that the real action is actually privatized, not only here but in other countries as well. You know, when I was meeting with the head of the Ministry of Defense in Great Britain back in the 90’s, Lord Hill Norton (God bless his soul, he just passed away this summer), but he had been head of the MOD and he only found accidentally that this stuff was real and was going on from Lord Mountbatten, who had one of the objects, whatever they are, hover over his estate and actually melted a whole area of the snow out there in England. But he asked me, he said “Why wouldn’t they have told me this was going on. I only found out that these compartmented operations existed after I left the MOD position. I said, because they know you’re a stand-up guy, and you wouldn’t have put up with the illegal nature of the covert programs that were managing this issue, so, he and other officials like him have wondered how this has gotten out of hand. I said, look, go all the way back to Eisenhower, in 1961, when he left office, when he said “Beware of the military-industrial complex. It will get out of control and be a threat to our security and our way of life.” I’m paraphrasing, but his clip — actually, that clip is on our web site, DisclosureProject.org, and I think that one of Eisenhower’s guys who was a grunt at the time, a young military guy named Steve Lovekin. He became eventually a brigadier general, he’s a lawyer in North Carolina. He said he sat there with President Eisenhower and saw the president deliberately being shut out of information and that Eisenhower was hopping mad, but felt the whole thing left his control. So, it is sort of like a zillion-headed medusa’s out there and has lost substantially the oversight control of the government that people think about when they think of you’re high school civics lesson or something.

CG: Yes, it’s like the invisible government —

SG: Oh, it is…

CG: I mean, one of the anecdotes I remember is when Clinton became President, I think he dispatched Web Hubbell, who everybody will remember, to …he wanted to know two things — what was the real story behind the story in the Kennedy assassination and what’s the story behind the story in all this extraterrestrial UFO stuff, and if the President of the United States couldn’t crack them open…

SG: Well, no, and that’s correct. I mean, in fact, I was involved with that in the early days, putting the briefing documents together for President Clinton and his people, and I know for a fact that Clinton wanted to find out about this stuff and I know that the CIA director Woolsey wanted to, but the problem is, is that — I remember the parting moment with the CIA director when, after about 3 hours of meeting with him, and I said “You know, we need an executive order and that this stuff can be properly disclosed and particularly the energy and propulsion systems that have been developed and studied in these projects that would enable us to get completely off of oil, and make ourselves independent of Mid-East oil. We need this to happen.” And he looked at me, he said, “How do we disclose what we don’t have access to?” And it was a chilling moment to have a sitting CIA director say this, and he was not bluffing, he was virtually in tears, and I said “Well, for God’s sakes and we’ve go to put together the means to do it.” My frustration has been … we now have almost 450 of these people, ranging from generals to cosmonauts to a dozen or two people at top-secret facilities who’ve worked on these projects, who are already filmed. We’re ready to put them out there – we are putting them out there, at DisclosureProject.org you can see it. The problem is, these big media outlets, when you tell them “Hey, this is what we have,” they back off and go “We can’t do that story”. Let me tell you what ABC News did during 2001. You mentioned the Disclosure Project press conference, which was covered worldwide…ABC News — the guy who was their executive producer for 20/20 and Primetime Live — wanted to do a special segment using these hard hitting witnesses. Time went by, and weeks and weeks, and he finally called me and he said “You know, they’re not going to let me do this segment.” I said I thought you were the executive producer and had control over this project. He said, well you know who “they” are. And click, the line went dead. That’s a true story. One of the problems is that people in this country think the media, the big media, is “free” (quote, unquote). I have a document on our web site, it’s linked to a paper I did last year called “Media Play”, and it is a CIA document from the 1990’s that describes their contacts at major media to kill or spin stories that “they” don’t want out to the public. So, one of the problems is that the media is most certainly not what most people think it is — some arbiter of truth, as you said earlier. I mean, on the contrary, they’re usually shills sitting at the right hand of the king taking dictation, and unfortunately all of us are losing in the process.

CG: Well, let me ask you — maybe the best way to deal with this is to end run the media, and I’ll give you an example. I mean, if you’ve got video of these generals and cosmonauts and so on, maybe it’s time to do a — and maybe I need to talk with you off the air about this — but maybe it’s time to do the documentary and out run the mainstream media, I mean like “Outfoxed”, about the Fox network, about like “Fahrenheit 911”, you just take these things directly to the people. You bypass the corporate death grip — like “Super Size Me”. I mean…

SG: Exactly…

CG:.. people go out there and they do these independent documentaries, they get them into the theaters, and the people can see the evidence for themselves without the pipeline that some of these media outlets have.

SG: Well, we actually would love to do that and we already have a two-hour and a one-hour as well as a four-hour summary of the testimony, but it was done just – our group has been very volunteer, there’s no one on a payroll of any kind. One of our problems is that there has been a tremendous lack of funding for the scope of what we’re trying to do. But I think that yes, something like that could be done, and should be done, and I would welcome it happening. The public is very interested in this subject, but they are constantly misinformed and a piece like last night, what it does is puts a few little pieces of information that’s credible in it and about the rest of the hour or 45 minutes was just rubbish, and I’m afraid that this is the kind of thing that people are tired of seeing, in many respects, but also confuses the issue more than elucidates it because it is disinformation to put out to the public a statement, like Peter Jennings did, that the government is no longer in this business. Well, not the acknowledged government, but there’s an unacknowledged government, so I think that he cannot be that naive — I mean, either the people who wrote that for him were scripting a fairy tale or these people are truly naive about what goes on in Washington.

CG: He’s Dr. Steven Greer on the Charles Goyette show, from the Disclosure Project – DisclosureProject.org on the internet. We’ve got to take a short break. Back in a moment. If you’d like to be on our show, we’re not going to have a lot more time with Dr. Greer, but if you’d like to be on the program we’ll fit in, we’ll shoehorn in, as many people as we can when we come back. 602-230-TALK.

[Commercial Break]

CG: The Disclosure Project… they want open, secrecy-free hearings on this whole UFO business, and Dr. Steven Greer is on the line with us. I’m going to go jump on the phones to just as many calls as we can get in here, starting with Russ from Carefree. Russ, good morning — quickly, please…

Russ: Good morning, Charles, I have some quick questions — ok, right to the chase… Doctor, why the cover-up and who benefits? And, a follow-up…

SG: Well, number one. The secrecy started out because they didn’t know what they were dealing with and they were afraid of people reacting in a negative way to something that was more powerful than any technology that *we* had. I think that this then evolved to a situation as — once they realized what the technology was — and we’re estimating that between 1950 and 1960 they basically had figured out the energy and propulsion generation systems behind these sorts of objects. They realized that it extracts energy from the fabric of space around us. Not outer space, but space. In fact, we have an experimental program going on now called Space Energy Access Systems. You can see the web site SEASpower.com to look into this. The question is, what impact would that have? Well, essentially you’re talking about things with propulsion and energy generation capabilities that are not your Grand Dad’s Oldsmobile. These things are not moving through interstellar space using Jet A fuel or rocket fuel, or anything like that. It’s a whole new type of physics, and the problem with it is that it means ‘good bye’ oil, gas, coal, centralized utilities…oops, I just wrote off about a 6 or 7 trillion dollar part of the global economy. It is an enormously big issue in terms of money, power, geopolitical power, etc. So, this issue — far from being the ‘ha ha’ piece of people having sex with creatures from another star system — is really about the death grip the current power players have on the geopolitical order and the economic order of this planet. And they damn well intend to keep us addicted to black oil for as long as they can. The problem is, is that many people even within this management group that I have met with, and I *have* met with people who are on the policy board of this group, are concerned that we *may* be running out of time to transition out of fossil fuels, and so the good news is that many of them support bringing this information out as well as the technologies out — they just don’t know how to do it — and they’ve painted themselves into such a corner of secrecy, it’s hard for them to even acknowledge that these projects exist to the world because there would be so much outrage at the fact that we have destroyed so much of the world’s environment and impoverished so much of the world artificially over the last 40 or 50 years.

CG: All right, hey Russ, I’m sorry I can’t let you fall off cause we’re just out of time and I’ve got so many interesting call on the line…Hey, Dr. Greer, I understand you’re going to be here in the valley, can you arrange to get here a little early so you can be on the show?

SG: We *could* do that, sure. We’ll have to set that up. That would be great.

CG: Yes, in fact, before you…when are you going to be out here in April sometime, do you know?

SG: Yes, I don’t have the calendar in front of me. It’s on our web site, though. It should be up there soon, when we’re going to be there in the Phoenix area.

CG: Well, we’ll get you back on then in advance to kind of help beef up your attendance and then give some of these people a chance to get some of their questions answered, because my lines are blinking like a Christmas tree and people want to visit with you so…

SG: Oh my gosh. Yes, we’ll certainly try to do that and I appreciate your time.

CG: And I appreciate your time so much. Dr. Steven Greer. All right, you can find the material on the internet at DisclosureProject.org. This is the Charles Goyette Show. Well, of *course* it is. Where are you going to hear this kind of stuff, especially — I know sometimes you hear stuff like this late at night. Where are you going to hear this stuff in the morning? Except on Air America Phoenix 1010 Talk KXXT — the Charles Goyette Show. That’s where you’re going to hear it!